Random Citizen: "The government should have harsh penalties for crimes, so average citizens can exult in the suffering of the unrighteous."
Amateur Consequentialist: "Piffle! Prison sentences should be legally mandated only if they actually accomplish something besides suffering, like deterrence or rehabilitation."
Satan N'leve: "And they do accomplish something! Namely, the happiness of the average citizens, via their exultation in the suffering of the unrighteous. Aren't you a utilitarian?"
Respondeo dicendum quod: "There are two utilitarian objections to that.
"First, it is highly unlikely that the amount of happiness gained by the average victim outweighs the suffering generated by a twenty-year prison sentence. Victims aren't waking up every morning and thinking to themselves, 'Gee, it sure feels great that that bank robber is rotting in jail right now.'"
Satan N'leve: "That just means that retributivism should be a relatively small factor in determining sentencing, not a zero one."
Respondeo dicendum quod: "True, but the second consequentialist objection reduces the desired weight to zero.
"Sadism is a really bad psychological habit for a population to be in. We should not be spending any resources facilitating a habit of sadism! We should not inculcate, abide, and abet a cultural value of sadism! Same reason I don't think that the government should sponsor events where citizens burn effigies of racial minorities to music and chants. We'd be better off using tax dollars to give victims chocolate bars, because subsidizing chocolate is healthier for the population than subsidizing sadism!"
Satan N'leve: "Do you really think that, if funding longer prison sentences isn't an option, the Tory government will divert the saved money to a pro-social programme like that?"
Respondeo dicendum quod: "They might lower taxes! Great! Better than our culture promoting sadism!"
Satan N'leve: "You're denying victims part of their compensation for the sake of population-level PR?"
Respondeo dicendum quod: "Actually, yes. Promoting cultural norms is a great and vital weapon in the arsenal of Good (just as it is for Evil)."
Satan N'leve: "What do you think of the justification of penal law that says it's society's way of expressing disapproval?"
Respondeo dicendum quod: "Well, okay, I have to admit that it is a theoretically solid justification – solely because the desire for social conformity can actually reduce crime! – but not effective enough a reduction to justify most penal sentences; it is a too weak justification for most penal law in our country."
Random Citizen: "But it's morally important that bad persons be punished!"
Respondeo dicendum quod: "Please talk to Amateur Consequentialist."