e_jo_m: Scholar with long blonde hair writing, possibly taking notes. Commonly interpreted to be a real or ideal secretary or student of Saint Augustine, painted by Raphael Sanzio in fresco opposite 'School of Athens' in the Stanza della Segnatura at the Vatican, commonly referred to as 'Disputa'. (Default)
Something occurs to me. I found an account of a professor in the twentieth century settling a question of Classical Latin grammar by seeing what Cicero did, I assume because we have tons of surviving works of his and because he definitely spoke highly refined educated Latin. As such, will people of 5022 use Shakespeare as a model for proper English? It would be difficult, because we have basically zero prose that we know is written in Shakespeare's own voice. Bernard Shaw is a very famous English writer, we have enormous piles of his writing, much of it is in his own voice, and he had some very specific ideas about the language; but is his work really going to go down in history? Our modern US and UK really have no famous orators who write their own speeches. Possibly Churchill is the closest equivalent; we have tons of surviving writing by him, he was an educated native speaker, and he was very important to history. Dante successfully made himself a model for the Italian language, but most attempts to reform English have failed miserably (see: Bernard Shaw). However, Samuel Johnson's ideas actually largely took hold on the educated Anglosphere; will he be the model of the future classicists who try to reconstruct Early American English? (Even more enticing, we have huge piles of biographical information about the guy, thanks not least to the discovery of the ebony cabinet.) Or maybe future classicists won't need a model; they'll have so much of a surviving corpus, including prescriptivist manuals and descriptivist surveys, that they can say things like "In the 2010s, ending a sentence with a preposition was seen as permitted in the following circumstances and phrases…" and then launch on a ten-page examination of every detail of twenty-first-century English use.


"Ah, the Harbour of Dreamland. Wow, look, there's Cicero! Hey Marcus Tullius, did you know that modern linguists study your speeches to determine what qualifies as proper Latin?"

"One would expect as much."
e_jo_m: Scholar with long blonde hair writing, possibly taking notes. Commonly interpreted to be a real or ideal secretary or student of Saint Augustine, painted by Raphael Sanzio in fresco opposite 'School of Athens' in the Stanza della Segnatura at the Vatican, commonly referred to as 'Disputa'. (Default)

Recently I was lamenting that it's no longer the case that 99% of educated Europeans read and write Latin, making international academic communication way more difficult. But today I found out that, even within the academy, English might actually be more widespread today than Latin was then!

In terms of stuff you can read, you're better off now. It says here that seventy percent of incunabula are in Latin. According to this sample, that percentage is today exceeded by English-language articles in psychology, sociology, probably educational sciences, economics, human geography, political science, and communication and media studies. Possible exceptions include history, archaeology, linguistics (unsurprising), literature (unsurprising), and art. The only definite exception in this sample is law, where English is firmly in the minority. (Some rando claims that ninety-eight percent of science publications are in English, but that can't be right.) 

(Also, about 90% of EU legislation is in English, it's the international language of flight, and it's supposedly spoken by one in seven humans.)

In terms of people you can write to, you're probably better off back then if you only want to talk to academics; I'm assuming that basically every academic back then could read Latin, whereas today not all of them are literate in English. However, if you want to talk to non-academics, you're better off speaking English today than Latin in 1500. European literacy rates around 1500 were abysmal, such that a minority could read at all. And presumably even fewer people could speak Latin. Whereas today, 38% of the EU can have a conversation in English, and I'm assuming all of those people can read it too.

What I haven't found numbers on is the later Renaissance. Perhaps in Shakespearean times, or Georgian times, Latin was more widespread.

December 2023

S M T W T F S
     12
3456 789
10111213141516
17181920212223
24252627282930
31      

Syndicate

RSS Atom

Most Popular Tags

Style Credit

Expand Cut Tags

No cut tags
Page generated Jun. 17th, 2025 07:35 am
Powered by Dreamwidth Studios